**Jim Hill:** Welcome to Weight Loss And, where we delve into the world of weight loss. I'm Jim Hill.

**Holly Wyatt:** And I'm Holly Wyatt. We're both dedicated to helping you lose weight, keep it off, and live your best life while you're doing it.

**Jim Hill:** Indeed, we now realize successful weight loss combines the science and art of medicine, knowing what to do and why you will do it.

**Holly Wyatt:** Yes, the “And” allows us to talk about all the other stuff that makes your journey so much bigger, better, and exciting.

**Jim Hill:** Ready for the “And” factor?

**Holly Wyatt:** Let's dive in.

**Jim Hill:** Here we go. Holly, today we're going to talk about eating, intuitive eating or mindful eating. If you pay attention to your body's cues, can it help with weight loss, weight loss maintenance, emotional eating? These are really, really interesting questions.

**Holly Wyatt:** Yeah, emotional eating. That is a big one for lots of people. I know when I'm talking to them about where they struggle, they talk about the fact that I know I eat for emotions, but how do I break that cycle or how do I break that habit? What can I do about it? Are there strategies?

Just telling someone to not do that doesn't work. I'm really excited about today's episode because I think we can get some, what we like to call, pie in the plate, really strategies that can help people with emotional eating and I think can help them get to their body weight goals. I'm excited about today's episode.

**Jim Hill:** Great. To help us today, we have the pleasure of speaking with Bonnie Tobdicks, a renowned registered dietitian and nutritionist. I've known Bonnie for many years and she really is. She's an author. She's a podcast host. She's an expert in intuitive eating and mindful wellness. I like that, Holly, mindful wellness. Bonnie has a master's degree in nutrition education and is a certified dietitian nutritionist, bringing a wealth of knowledge and expertise to our conversation. She's the author of a bestselling book.

I love this title: Read It Before You Eat It: Taking You From Label To Table. And again, provides practical advice for navigating today's complex food environment.

That's what we're all about, practical advice. She's also the founder of [betterthandieting.com](http://betterthandieting.com/), where she helps individuals achieve a healthier relationship with food and themselves through intuitive eating and mindfulness practices. With a career dedicated to promoting balanced eating and overall wellness, Bonnie has been featured in numerous media outlets and she's a sought-after speaker at health and nutrition conferences. Her approach combines evident based science with compassionate guidance, making her a leading voice in the field of nutrition. We're so glad that Bonnie is here with us today.

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** I am so happy to be here and thank you so much for that introduction.

**Holly Wyatt:** Well let's get started and thank you for joining us. This is such an important topic. I know our listeners are really going to love this one and I think when we can kind of delve into intuitive eating and mindful eating and really get into some of this stuff, it's going to be good. But maybe we can just start off today by just giving us a little bit about your background and what inspired you to focus on this topic. Why did you become an expert in this area?

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** Well, I grew up overweight with bad eating habits and a bad self-image. I was definitely one of those people that wore a t-shirt over my bathing suit and I had horrible habits. And finally at the age of 17, I decided to change my diet, which literally changed my life in so many ways. And through eating more healthfully, I lost weight, I gained self-confidence.

And as a bonus side effect, I actually gained a career because I originally went to college with the intention of majoring in psychology and minoring in art. But someone in front of the room held up a piece of paper and said, is anyone interested in dietetics? And I had no idea what that meant, but I knew that I had just been on this diet of healthy eating that I love. So I raised my hand, I got called for an interview at Downstate Medical Center and I wound up changing schools and changing careers and the rest is history.

**Jim Hill:** Wow. What a great story.

**Holly Wyatt:** Love it.

**Jim Hill:** Maybe Bonnie, start by helping maybe define some terms here. Intuitive eating, mindful eating, mindfulness. What do we mean by those terms?

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** Okay. Maybe the most important term that we should define is the word diet, which actually means way of life. And that is W-A-Y and not W-E-I-G-H, which is what a lot of people associate diet with.

And you really should be able to incorporate your diet into your lifestyle and not have to change your life to fit your diet. And everybody is on a diet. So diet is not a bad word. Even your goldfish are on a diet. So I think that you need to really rethink the word because recent media has made it seem almost as if you should not even be mentioning the word diet or a scale or anything like that. And we could get into more of that later, but I really think that we need to do like a refocus on what the word even means.

**Jim Hill:** Now that's really a good point because people think of a restricted, you're going to diet, it's an awful something that's just terrible. And you hold your breath and you do it. And diet, really, you know, I always come back, we're getting off on a tangent here, but the French have such a different approach to diet than the Americans. They would never eat anything that doesn't taste good. And yet they're getting a problem with obesity. But traditionally, they've done much, much better. It seems like they have a more healthy relationship with diet than maybe we do in this country.

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** Well, maybe because, you know, of course, we're generalizing, but they may have a better relationship with themselves and how it relates to their diet. You know, I actually just got back from France a month ago and, you know, something like pastries, of course, which we think, you know, when we visit France, you may go to a pastry shop every day, they may have it on Sunday or special occasions. It's not quite what it seems in terms of how they handle their diets.

But I wanted to get back to your question and define something. So intuitive eating, the idea behind intuitive eating sounds like it's pretty simple, which is that you should listen to your body's natural hunger cues. And that means that you should learn to eat what you want when you're hungry and then stop when you're full. And maybe if you were an infant, that would be so easy because infants, you know, I remember feeding my own kids, I have three children and two grandkids now. But I remember when feeding them when they were little, I would feed them something and then the next day they wouldn't eat the same amount that they ate the day before. And I couldn't understand like, Hey, you know what?

You're up to this amount already. Why didn't you eat more? But maybe they weren't as active and they didn't need it. So we don't eat like infants who when they're full stop eating, we could go out and have a drink, bread and appetizer main dish. And then they wheel over the dessert cart and your stomach is saying, Oh, listen, I was done about a half an hour ago. Why are you still eating?

And you're ahead your mouth, your nose is saying, Oh, I'll have the Mississippi mud pipe. So we need to learn how to eat a little bit differently to be able to eat intuitively, intuitive eating also says that you should eat without guilt. It rejects diet culture and it integrates a lot of not just physical, but psychological and emotional responses to food. Taking a more holistic approach when it comes to mindful eating, mindful eating centers a lot more on the eating experience, paying attention to the temperature of food, the texture, the flavor, the sensations, trying to really be present when you're eating and paying attention. And that's why if you are eating with the side dish of your computer, you are not going to be eating mindfully, because the likely it is that when you do simultaneous activities, you are not paying attention to the texture, the taste, the flavor. And I've always said to clients of mine, you know, if you're eating a sandwich while you're doing your work on your computer and I came over and I covered the sandwich, would you be able to tell me if a half a sandwich is left or three quarters are left or a bite is left? And they probably wouldn't because the focus is not on the food.

**Holly Wyatt:** Yeah, I tell the story all the time. I was driving one time eating and I thought I had half of a sandwich left. I was so sure that I had half of a sandwich left that I stopped the car, got out, went and thought I had fallen down like between the door.

It was gone, you you ate the whole thing, didn't even realize it. So I totally, I think that's something people can really relate to. So I also love that you don't think of diet as a bad word.

I say that all the time. People say, oh, I'm not on a diet. I'm on a lifestyle.

I'm like, we're all on a diet. It depends on how you, you know, define define word. So can you define the difference or really point out the difference to the listeners between intuitive eating or dieting and traditional aspects of dieting? Like Like are probably thinking of in their head. Can you point out the differences for people?

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** Yeah, for sure. So when it comes to traditional dieting, that usually involves some sort of lists: allowed list, avoid list. It usually involves some sort of guidelines, sometimes super strict, you know, like the keto diet. 75% of your diet will come from fat.

That is a strict, restrictive diet. Intuitive eating has nothing to do with that at all. But, you know, there are a lot of misconceptions about intuitive eating as well. You know, it seems like you could eat whatever you want, whenever you want.

And sure, you could do that. But that's not really the goal, because intuitive eating also believes in body kindness and responding to your body's needs. And, you know, sitting there and just eating and eating and eating without thinking about your sensation of fullness is not really what intuitive eating is about.

**Jim Hill:** Bonnie, I love it that I know that you've written some pieces on how intuitive eating and weight loss can coexist. And Holly and I talk about this all the time. As you know, in our field, this health at any size has gotten some traction of people saying, oh, quit worrying. Just eat what you want. Don't worry about your weight. And you've actually talked about those two aren't necessarily at odds. They could be combined.

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** Yeah, you know, I want to tell you a story about something that happened once to me is that years ago, many, many years ago, I went to a lecture that was given by the book at that time was Overcoming Over-Eating. And the people that were talking, one was a psychologist. I think both may have been psychologists. And they were talking about how if there's something that you love, let's just say ice cream, you should go to the supermarket and fill your house with ice cream. You know, fill your place with all the foods that you are craving because eventually you're they're not going to glitter any more. And afterwards, I asked questions to the psychologist who was there and she said, would you mind if I started referring patients to you? So I said, sure. So she started referring patients to me and they would call me and it would be like, hello, this is Gloria. I'm on this plan and so far I've gained 15 pounds.

When does this end? And I think that the concept, you need to know who you're talking to. My father had an expression, you have to know your customers. It's like when a patient comes to see me, I use that adage, you know, we have two ears in one mouth for a reason because we should be listening twice as much as we should be talking. You need to know who you're talking to. And in this case, for your listeners, you need to know yourself. You need to know whether keeping a lot of those, what we could call trigger foods around the house is actually a good idea.

But if you love cookies, I don't know that you should fill your cabinet with cookies as opposed to going to a restaurant and when they bring over cookies at the end of the meal, having one or two and seeing if that works better for you. So you really do need to know yourself.

**Jim Hill:** It's this idea of deprivation. We've been trying to sell deprivation to people and people aren't buying it. I mean, you can do it for a while. But if I tell you that you forever have to give up the foods you love, not many people can do that. I think we have to bring some normality back into this. One of the things that Holly and I talk about is the new GLP-1 medications. What we think happens is most of our population is overweight and sedentary and their appetite is dysregulated in the wrong way. I think the GLP-1 may take it too far the other way.

They take it away totally. And we've often wondered if there's a middle ground here where you need to. It's almost like you said before, we're born with the ability to regulate foods and we learn to not do it. Can we go back and kind of set our appetite back to factory settings?

And is that a way forward? I worry that if you have no appetite on these GLP-1 meds, we see people that say, I forget to eat and I'm not sure that's great either.

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** No, it's not great. And I think we're seeing a lot more malnutrition now related to people taking those drugs because they don't feel like eating. So therefore they don't eat much and they're happy that they're not eating much because they're finally not eating much and losing weight, which was a goal of theirs, as opposed to a goal to get healthier, control their diabetes. You know, all that may come with weight loss, but their goal is the number of pounds. And, you know, there's another word here that really is just sticking out to me and the word is empower. And I think that when it comes to your diet and losing weight or gaining weight or staying the same or whatever it is, you need to feel empowered with the choices that you're making. And from what I've seen in my 30-plus year career, and I'm sure you've seen it too, is where when I ask people about their history, their diet history, they'll say, oh, yes, I lost 20 pounds on Atkins and no, I lost 10 pounds on keto. And I lost this.

It's like, wait a minute. It is not that diet that made you lose weight. You've made those choices and that created the weight loss. But when someone says, and it's funny, I once had a patient who lost about 30 pounds and he went to a party and he was kind of a shy guy, but all these women started coming up to him and they said, oh my gosh, you look amazing.

How did you lose weight? And he said, you know, I don't know. It's kind of common sense.

And everyone walked away from him.

**Jim Hill:** No, they want something magic, right?

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** Exactly. I ate a grapefruit after every meal or I threw one leg when I ate, you know, that's what they wanted to hear. But the reality is that if you could feel empowered, which I think is behind intuitive eating and behind mindful eating, where you feel like you are making the choices. So if you choose to eat a piece of pie, great. As long as that's something that makes you feel good about your choice and you could put a lid on it and move on.

Okay. But if you eat 10 pieces of pie, that's not going to make you feel good. So you need to really delve into that to see why you're eating that way. And how can you be nicer to yourself and kinder to your body?

**Holly Wyatt:** I love this because this is something we talk about all the time. I love chips. And if I had chips in my house, I would choose. I would say, Holly, I would have some chips. I could have chips every single meal. I just love chips. So I know having chips in my house is probably not the best idea for me. Do I have chips sometimes? Absolutely.

But it's not a good thing for me to have in my house. And I think kind of how you're marrying those two together is really, really the key. Right. The choice is I'm empowered to say, I'm not going to have chips in the house, but that doesn't mean I can never have chips. The other comment I want to bring up, especially with these GLP one meds is there's joy and fun in eating. And I think to some degree, sometimes when you take out hunger and satiety and you say, you know, I'm never going to get hungry and I'm never going to desire food, then you kind of take out the joy. There's something about getting hungry, desiring something and then eating it. That is, it's something I think we like to experience, you know? And so I kind of worry that we take that away. Is that a good thing or not?

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** There's no doubt about that. It's funny because right before this show, I did an interview for a magazine and the topic was hot dogs. And they were asking me about, you know, how good hot dogs are for you. And I think that they really wanted me to say that there's, you know, there are healthier hot dogs on the market and that's the way you should eat it on a whole wheat bun and only with, you know, sauerkraut and nothing else, no chili, no cheese, whatever. And I said, you know, if you eat a hot dog like that, first of all, it's probably not going to taste like the member you have of a hot dog. And the other thing is that you may feel like you're actually eating something that is so healthy that you should eat it more often, even though it might have the same amount of sodium or calories as a regular hot dog. So the heck with that stuff, just have a hot dog the way you like it. Just make it a sometimes food and don't have it that often.

**Jim Hill:** Yeah, I used to get called all the time about how you could have healthy food on special holidays like Thanksgiving or something. And it's like, don't, don't eat healthy most of the time, but it's okay to celebrate. So okay to go to the baseball game and have a hot dog. It's a great experience, but you're in control. You're making the decision and you're empowered.

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** I have a great Thanksgiving story for you. I once had a client who came to me, wanted to lose some weight because she wanted to start a family. She wound up losing really a nice amount of weight that made her feel good about herself. And then Thanksgiving was coming and she was going to be with her mother who really did not set her on the right track in terms of weight.

Always criticized her as you could imagine. So she said to me, I love pecan pie. How could we fit pecan pie in? And we talked about it and she went to Thanksgiving and when her mother was cutting the pie, she asked everybody if they wanted a piece. She did not ask her daughter if she wanted a piece and her daughter said, “I'll have a piece of pecan pie, please.” And her mother said, “Really?” And she said, “Yes, I would love a piece. Thanks.” And she said that she never enjoyed a piece of pie as much as that piece because she knew that it was just a piece of pie. And she knew how to fit it into her diet to make herself feel good. And she felt that word. She felt empowered. And I loved that story when she came home.

**Holly Wyatt:**You know, we've studied people in the national weight control registry. People who've been successful at losing weight and keeping it off. And one of the things after they've done this for a while that comes out as kind of a common denominator is that empowerment. It's not necessarily that I don't have to think about what I'm eating ever again, but I know what to do. I am, which is empowered, right? I have skills and strategies. I know how, if I eat something, gain a little bit weight, I know what to do. And it's that confidence and that empowerment that I really think helps drive people to be successful, not at losing weight, but at keeping it off.

That long-term piece of it, really. Because you can lose weight and not be empowered. You can lose weight on a special diet with restriction and all this kind of stuff. But But it off, I really think is where that empowerment piece starts to come out.

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** Well, you know, to me, in many respects, keeping it off is harder. Because when you're losing weight, it's a very dynamic process. Your clothing size is changing. People are complimenting you. You're seeing a change in your own body.

So that could be incredibly motivating. Once your weight is where you want it to be and you'd like to maintain it, you know, it's kind of like nobody's saying anything anymore. I'm still wearing the same clothing. You have to find other ways to motivate yourself by knowing that you're doing a favor for your body. You're making yourself feel good. You're being kind to yourself. All of this is wrapped up in something that you have to create excitement over because you may not be physically seeing change any more.

**Jim Hill:** We talk about that all the time. Weight loss is such a short-term process, but weight loss maintenance is forever. And that's why it's so important. You cannot be on a restrictive diet forever. We've got decades of experience showing that doesn't work. You have to find a way of living and a way of eating that's satisfying to you in the long term.

**Holly Wyatt:** Hopefully, I think the listeners may be intrigued now. So how can someone begin to practice intuitive eating if they've spent years following strict diets, strict rules, you know, they're either on rules or off rules? How do you start kind of this intuitive eating plan?

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** Well, first of all, it's important to try to tune into your hunger cues. And a lot of people don't even feel them. They don't allow themselves to feel hunger because hunger for some people is scary. It could make them feel insecure.

It could make them feel uneasy. It could make them feel like they're going to be ill. You You they may feel like they need to eat without even feeling hunger. So try to tune into your hunger cues and genuinely think about what you feel when you're hungry. And then after you eat, try to think about how you're feeling.

Are you really full? I try to give people a visualization that your stomach is about the size of two of your fists and that it's on the left side of your body. Your stomach is not your abdominal area. It's it's an organ that is not as big as you think.

So you don't really need that much to even fill it. So tuning into your hunger cues is important. The other thing is trying to get rid of that dieting mentality that you need to feel hunger. You need to feel a restriction. You need to follow a strict plan and not eat bad foods, bad in quotes, and only eat good foods, which is on that allowed list. You know, in the meantime, I could take any avoid list. eat foods that are on the avoid list and still either maintain my weight or lose it.

So, you know, that's all just a thing of the past. The other thing is to really think about your food preferences, maybe even finding substitutes for things that you like. You know, for example, I adore potatoes. I don't know about you. I know you like chips, Holly, but I love potatoes. Like, I can eat potatoes every day. So I don't really want to eat a ton of potatoes.

So what I do is I will make roasted vegetables and in with the roasted vegetables, I caught up sweet potatoes and red bliss potatoes and I put them in there. So it's sort of, I don't really like to use the word diluting, but I'm going to use it because I think you'll know what I mean. Kind of diluting it down so that it's not just potatoes. It's potatoes mixed with a lot of other vegetables. Sometimes I'll do the same thing with salad dressing, where if there's a dressing that I love like blue cheese dressing, I might make blue cheese with balsamic vinegar because I don't want it to be all blue cheese dressing. So I just kind of diluted down. So it's taking foods and tastes that you like and seeing how you could make them perhaps even better for you without compromising taste to still have flavor and be pleasing for you, but yet perhaps be less calories.

**Holly Wyatt:** Decreasing that energy density, being smart and saying, I'm going to get the flavor and I'm going to get the satisfaction because I love the potatoes or whatever, but I'm going to decrease the energy density by being smart about it.

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** Another thing that I just wanted to add is also dressing the body you have is very important. And I remember that after I had my first son, you know, I just thought the weight was going to pour off me. Someone actually used those words. She said, Oh, when I was breastfeeding the weight poured off of me. Well, that did not happen to me at all.

There was like zero pouring. And I remember that we were going out with another couple like two months later and I really hated the way everything looked on me. I was still in my maternity clothing and I went out and I bought an outfit that was in a size that I never wore before, but it really made me feel better about going out that night because I was dressing the body that I had. So it's important to also have respect for your body. Address it in a way that makes you feel good, even if you're on a weight loss journey.

Don't go out and spend a fortune on designer clothing on a size that you don't want to live in, but you can dress the body that you have to make yourself feel better.

**Jim Hill:** So I know there are some of our folks listening that are, they're still a little skeptical. They're saying, I don't know. I don't know if my body is going to give me the right cues. What would you tell them in terms of giving it a try?

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** Well, eating more mindfully could bring back the joy to eating without guilt as a side dish. It could bring back more respect for your body and it could really help you feel so good about your choices because, listen, there could be such a thing as reincarnation.

I don't know about it, but we know we have one life. And, you know, I do remember something very clearly that when I was younger and I went on a diet and lost weight, that what happened after that was it seemed like 10 minutes and I gained back 10 pounds. And I remember that I had a friend whose mother and every time she saw me, you know, she would always say, Oh, Bonnie, you're keeping your weight off. Oh, Bonnie, you still look good. And I lost those 10 pounds. And I remember saying to her, you don't have to say that to me anymore.

This is my weight. And that made me feel very empowered at the time. But then I said to myself, why did you say that? Like, how do you know? And the reason why I knew is because I know I really try very hard to keep myself happy and that there are plenty of people in your life, plenty of experiences in your life that could make you unhappy. Why would you want to make yourself unhappy? And if your weight, if you're a diet, if the way you look and feel is not making you happy, you have the power to change that.

**Holly Wyatt:** Well, that's a perfect segue. I'm 100% on board on that. We talk about all, we're not waiting for anything to feel happy. You feel happy now. That helps you move towards your goal.

I think that's so much. But that kind of brings us to emotional eating. And I do think there's a lot of people who, when you have a negative emotion and we all have negative emotions, I call it negative emotions, you don't want to feel necessarily, tend to turn to food for that reason. So not hunger, but for emotional reasons. How do you deal with that? You know, kind of using this technique. What do you say to people who say, I recognize I eat for reasons, for these emotions? What do I do about that?

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** Well, you know, there's a few things that you could do. And some of them just involved you, for example, keeping a journal, perhaps instead of going to get the food or foods that you think you want. Because when you're eating emotionally, lots of times that food that you're eating is not even really being enjoyed. Maybe the first few bites. But the rest is like, you know, one of my patients once described it that when he's at a buffet table, it's like he opens up his stomach like a draw and just putting the food directly into the draw instead of it going to his mouth, which I thought was a very sad visualization.

We had a lot to talk about after that. But I think that keeping a food diary or food journal could be very helpful. But you have to know your personality because sometimes when people get too obsessed about that, that's not a good thing. But it may help bring awareness to actually what you're eating, what you're actually eating, and when. But I think keeping a journal of emotions, a journal of how you feel and what you are doing about those emotions could be very powerful for you, especially which I love to see is when you overcome these issues and go back and read the things that you wrote.

And it's like, wow, I was in so much pain then. So I think keeping a journal could be very helpful. The other thing is perhaps visualization. Sometimes when someone would come to me and say, oh, I really wanted to have this with her, I would suggest that they go into another room outside of the kitchen and just close their eyes and picture going into the kitchen, opening the cabinet, opening the food, eating it. What does it taste like? Is it, did they really want something crunchy or sweet or creamy or hot or cold? If you just give yourself the time sometimes to think about what you want, then you could save yourself thousands of calories by really going for what you want and you need as opposed to all of the unnecessary things that you could be grabbing just because you're feeling emotional. Sometimes it's about hydration. Sometimes we crave a food, but we're actually thirsty and we're mistaking hunger for thirst, and drinking something could really help you as a speed bump.

Sometimes I myself, if I'm writing a story and I am just like bored or I really need a break, I'll sometimes go into the kitchen, I'll start looking around and then I'll say to myself, wait, you know what, you eat lunch an hour ago. You don't need anything. I make a cup of herbal tea, sometimes even a cup of apple cinnamon tea with an apple cut up inside at the end of the tea. I have a baked apple. It's just kind of like I said, a speed bump to having something that you really didn't need, but that you just wanted.

**Jim Hill:** Bonnie, are there any specific resources or tools that you would recommend if some of our listeners want to dive deeper into learning about intuitive eating and mindfulness?

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** Well, you know, there's a book that's actually called Intuitive Eating that was written in, I believe, the 1990s by Evelyn Tribole and Elyse Resch. That would be a good idea.

I would just explore that and see, I think it's in its fourth printing right now. There are also, now that there are all these apps out there, mindfulness apps, apps that help you to feel more calm, apps that help you with breathing. That could be a good idea, as I mentioned, journaling. As long as you don't get too obsessed with food diaries, a food diary could be a good idea. But you also really have to be careful.

Really, I wish I could put this in bold and highlights around it. But you have to be careful about who you listen to. It's important to get support, but there are so many charlatans out there. And I'm going to put this in air quotes, influencers out there that are trying to give diet advice and make it seem so easy.

You know, you're looking at their curated feed on Instagram of they're wearing the best clothes and they make the best dishes and they have the best kids and all this stuff. Don't believe a lot of the things that you've seen. So if you want advice, perhaps talk to your doctor about it, see a registered dietician, see someone who really can give you advice that is a guide that makes sense, that will wind up being sensational instead of being sensational in a bad way because you know that those things really just work temporarily.

**Holly Wyatt:** How do you see the field of intuitive eating, mindful eating kind of evolving in the coming years? I think we're starting to see it more mainstream. I know that book had been out there for a long time, but I think the words and people are starting to talk about it more. Where do you think it's going?

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** Well, I think that we will have more conversations about eating healthfully and mindfully. And if you think about it, I mean, I remember that years ago, a book that I wanted to write was about the psychology of eating and weight loss, and it had some cute little stories in there. A lot of what I wanted to say probably would not fly today because of the whole, you know, non-diet approach, which we could certainly talk about. But I think there are shifts. There was restrictive dieting, then there was dieting mindfully. Then came the pandemic when, and I am, you know, called upon for interviews several times a week, no one wanted to talk about diet. Everybody wanted to talk about comfort food and no one talked about weight loss.

So that was kind of off the table for a few years. Now, I think that now that there are these drugs we're talking about, weight loss seems to be back on the table, back on people's lips. And people are talking about how they feel when they lose weight. And I think that I am hoping that we come to a different shift, which is that we talk about eating healthfully and the bonus side effect could be weight loss to bring better blood sugar levels, less heart disease, less gastrointestinal issues, and looking and feeling better about ourselves. I hope that that's the shift.

**Jim Hill:** Holly, I want to get to some listener questions, but I wanted to add one thing here. We haven't talked about physical activity and Holly and I are really big proponents of physical activity. And I think there's a lot of evidence suggesting that physically active people actually regulate their appetite better. There is a link between being active and appetite regulation. And on the other end, the people that are the most sedentary really aren't, you know, their appetite is dysregulated because of that sedentary. Would you agree with that?

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** Yes, I do agree with that. And exercise should make you feel good. It shouldn't be for weight loss. And trust me, I've had clients that were trainers at gyms that exercise their heads off and were overweight and unhappy with their eating habits. So exercise is not the answer, but exercise is a helpful component of just healthy living. If you engage in physical activity, it doesn't have to be, you know, wearing a certain outfit, leggings that match your top and joining a gym.

If you just walk your dog, if you just, you know, dance around the kitchen with your kids, that is exercise and physical activity that will make you feel good and eventually really pay off for you in terms of even feeling more agile and alive.

**Jim Hill:** Yeah, move your body. Bad things happen when you quit moving your body.

**Holly Wyatt:** And just moving your body, I think a lot of people don't associate how moving your body could impact what you're eating. The idea that moving your body perhaps could allow your appetite, your natural physiology to work better, to signal better, I think is something that I think is interesting that I think we're going to hear more and more about as we start to really understand that integration with the satiety hormones and all the things that are, you know, impacting how they work. All right, Jim, is it time for listener questions?

**Jim Hill:** Let's do some listener questions. Okay, Janet says, how can someone balance intuitive eating with the need for a structured meal plan due to medical reasons or specific health goals?

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** Yeah, I really understand this. And I think that that is one of the challenges of intuitive eating or mindful eating. It sort of leaves someone feeling like, okay, great, I get the whole thing about hunger queues, but now what do I do? So for those people who like to follow some sort of a routine, there's nothing wrong with the routine in eating as long as it makes you feel comfortable. But you need to know that you could always change up your routine because you are in charge of your eating.

That's very different than an allowed and an avoid list. And I have had people who come to me and they say, oh my gosh, I love to advice, I have this every day for breakfast, and I have this every day for lunch, and I have these two things, you know, one of these two things every day for dinner. And I tell them, listen, you do not have to do that. You chose to do that. I'm glad it's working for you. But you can have lots more variety in your diet and you are in charge of what you're picking. Don't feel like just because something is working for you that those are the only foods that you have to stick with.

**Holly Wyatt:** Yeah. And so once again, it's a little bit of a balance and saying that you can do both. I think it's what's saying, there is a way to incorporate both that structured plan and intuitive eating, realizing you have that power to do that. And I think to individualize it, I think so many times we think there's a right way and a wrong way. And what you're saying is there is not a right way. And to figure that out, I think is what a lot of people trying to do right now.

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** You know, and it's like the end of the year and on social media, they'll say, oh, what is your word for the new year? So my word for years, if I got into that, was the word balance. And it's just the way that I like to live my life. Maybe instead of balance, the word could be harmony. But I always said that if I was a toy, the toy that I would be would be a teeter-totter. You come back to the middle. That is me. So I love the word balance in life and diet in anything.

**Jim Hill:** I am with you. I think that's my word to Bonnie. It's just, and yet people say, oh, balance, that's boring. I want something wild and crazy. Balance is where it's at. It really is. Okay, Holly.

**Holly Wyatt:** All right. Let's see. We have a question from Barbara. This is a good one. She says that I struggle with binge eating at night, and I think this is common, a lot of calories at night. Are there mindfulness techniques or intuitive eating practices that can help address this specific issue?

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** Well, a few things. One thing is that be sure you're having regular meals during the course of the day or balanced meals during the course of the day because lots of people who overeat at night sometimes save themselves for that nighttime eating. They may have barely anything for breakfast if they have breakfast at all, a salad being good for lunch, no dressing, of course, and dinner could be something that's small, and then at night, they overeat. So be sure that you're eating well during the course of the day, which will be less of a justification or a reason for you to overeat at night. Another thing would be to be aware of your emotions and what else you're doing. We've talked about some of this where maybe you need to think a little bit more about what you really want to eat instead of just going like a hummingbird from one food to another.

Recognize your emotional cues. Are you really hungry? When did you get full? So there's nothing wrong with cravings and looking for something to eat at night is a snack. I think that could actually be fun, but it could also disrupt your sleep. So choosing wisely at that time of day is really, really important.

**Jim Hill:** All right, Holly, you know what time it is now?

**Holly Wyatt:** What time, Jim?

**Jim Hill:** It's time for the personal vulnerability questions.

**Holly Wyatt:** Okay.

**Jim Hill:** I'll start. So Bonnie, can you share a personal story that highlights the impact of intuitive eating and mindfulness in your life?

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** I think the story for me would go back to when I was a teenager and felt so badly about myself. That was before social media, as you could imagine. That was actually real. And comparing myself to other people and feeling that unhappiness and losing weight at that time really made me feel happy. It was like a gift that keeps on giving. What I realized later on, of course, is that it wasn't just about the weight.

It was about really taking care of myself. And you know, personally, my father had diabetes. My mother's mother was on insulin. My sister and brother had diabetes. They all had heart disease.

My sister and my parents were all on cholesterol-lowering medications. And you know, I know that that stuff is like knocking at my door, but I am not putting out a welcome mat for it. So, you know, at this point, I'm thankful to be at this point in my life and not taking any medication. And that is not because I willed it that way. That is because I believe of what I eat and how I move and really taking care of my body.

**Jim Hill:** Great. All right. Holly gets to ask her questions that she likes to ask our guests.

**Holly Wyatt:** This is my favorite question because I believe we're always learning. So, I like to show, you know, the fact that we get things wrong in science. I think scientists so many times are like, oh, we have the right answer, but we don't have the right answer. So, the question is, what is something that you got wrong in the past about intuitive eating or mindfulness? You know, maybe something you were recommending that you then learned or realized or new data came out and you said, oh, that's not right. And you kind of changed your mind.

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** I know exactly what it is. And in the beginning, which was, you know, way back in the day, I controlled fat a lot more than I should have. And I used cooking sprays instead of oil. I subbed in applesauce and many of my baking recipes instead of fat.

And I could go on and on. But the right kind of fats coming from nuts, avocado, certain oils are not only delicious, but they could actually help you along your weight loss journey because they're satiating. And including them in your diet might actually keep you from eating other sugary types of foods that are a lot less valuable nutritionally. So, what I have learned and changed my mind about and probably one of the only things I've changed my mind about when it comes to diet is that fat is not a bad word. It's just that I wish that it was called something else. Like fit, that should have been called lipids.

**Jim Hill:** Yeah. Let's change it. Let's change it. Just to aside, Bonnie, Holly and I did a whole podcast on things we got wrong in our career. And we ran out of time before we got through our list.

**Holly Wyatt:** Our list was long, long, long.

**Jim Hill:** Okay. Final question for you. One piece of advice for someone who's starting or considering to start saying, hey, what she said makes sense. I think I want to try this.

**Bonnie Taub-Dix:** You know, let's put it this way. When you go on a restrictive diet or if you went on a restrictive diet and you felt that deprivation, you may have felt like it was worth it because you were losing weight. But losing weight alone without learning how to live a balanced lifestyle, it is like putting a bandage on a broken arm. It covers the external wound, but once that wound heals, you still have the problem below that is much deeper. So, there are other deeper internal issues that you may have to address without just thinking about how your weight loss will get you the job, get you the partner, get you the friends, get you whatever you think you need.

It won't. So, weight loss shouldn't necessarily be your primary goal in an attempt to help yourself image or turn off that negative self-talk. The loss of weight is, like I said, a bonus side effect in learning how to eat more healthfully and to care for yourself more regularly.

**Jim Hill:** Great. All right, Holly, we've learned a lot on this episode, and I hope our listeners maybe will take that next meal without the TV on or the computer there and begin to sort of see how it feels to eat and listen to your body cues. Bonnie, thank you so much. This has been a wonderful session with you.

We've learned a lot, and I hope our listeners have as well. So, thank you, and see everybody next time on Weight Loss and.

**Holly Wyatt:** Bye, everybody.

**Jim Hill:** And that's a wrap for today's episode of Weight Loss and. We hope you enjoy diving into the world of weight loss with us.

**Holly Wyatt:** If you want to stay connected and continue exploring the “Ands” of weight loss, be sure to follow our podcast on your favorite platform.

**Jim Hill:** We'd also love to hear from you. Share your thoughts, questions, or topic suggestions by reaching out at [weightlossand.com](http://weightlossand.com/). Your feedback helps us tailor future episodes to your needs.

**Holly Wyatt:** And remember, the journey doesn't end here. Keep applying the knowledge and strategies you've learned and embrace the power of the “And” in your own weight loss journey.